Hi All

Having done 11 trips to the Ring, 1 to Spa and 2/3 UK trackdays a month last year I'm now wondering if there are any suggestions for some more hardcore mods to my 405.

The car is slightly lowered and has been fitted with AVO adjustables all round. Everything else was renewed at the same time last Feb.

Or should I just fit normal road tyres instead of the R888's

I've just emailed DES Developments with the same question - but would appreciate any opinions from anyone on here.

I'd like a little more roll control and a little less suspension travel - basically a more track biased setup.

Thought long and hard about retiring the car, but just cant do it yet ......

Cheers

I'm guessing some kind of coilover setup on the front and thicker ARB's.

Trouble is this kind of stuff isn't available over the counter like it is for the 205/309 so will need to be custom made and therefore mega bucks




(Or a Mi16x4 )

306 coilovers *might* be usable on a 405 .

and afaik T16 has a thicker front ARB, providing you can find one .


as for the rear end, i think 205parts might be able to make thickers TB's and ARB, providing there's enough interest.


hope this helps.

coilover setup and thicker ARB's

dont partner van rear end stuff fit?

If I ever get a week off once my house is sold I will compare the 2 beams from my car and van and see whats what. I've got a van breakers nearby too so maybe could get a few Partner beams if they have them

At least the 405 torsion bars are the same length as the 309 ones, so you can get 309 bars from 205 Parts and install in the 405 beam..

Are 309 GTI torsion bars the same thickness as 405 Mi16?

Interesting info fella's!

I had an email back from Neal at DES Developments who is currently doing some development work on a race 306 along these lines. I'm awaiting the results, as he feels that alot of the components can be carried across to the 405.

Another chap (Steve at Redline in Stoke Mandeville) passed comment that the rear torsion bars from the 405 estate were an upgrade, but he couldn't remember if that was compared to an ordinary 405 or an Mi16 or what!

One thing's for sure - I will be changing some bits!

That's interesting - as people are more likely to have stocks of/make up uprated bars for 309's and 205's than for 405's. So it may be easier to find supplies on the net.

Imagine if they did! Plenty of them about in scrappies!

I always thought that 309 stuff was too short with it being that much narrower than the 405.

I may dissapear under my pugs/citroen shortly then....

the 405 estate run thinner bar's and ARB, I have looked at it when I had a estate as a company car
I'd dump the Avo's and fit some Bilstein damper's personally as the billies are bump and rebound where most AVO's are rebound only and have a tendency to leak quite often,
Must say I never knew the 309 and 405 T/B's where the same length, ARB thou is different surely.
But thicker front and rear bar's are a must, Worth looking at some of the french sites as they have rallied them

I have got 25mm bars and a 30mm ARB on the back of my 306, not really suitable to be used on the road thou

Just having a spare moment earlier and remembered about this mention of the size of 405 Torsion bars and whether Partner stuff would fit.

the crossmember between the 405 and partner do indeed look extremely similar, they do use the same front mounting for example, though the rear looks similar does have a different part number.

one thing to note though, some partner's use 21.3mm torsion bars and 21mm Anti roll bars, a healthy increase over the 405's 20mm all round (20mm T/B's for the estate but a 19mm ARB)

I checked the prices too, Torsion bars are £54 each and the anti roll bar £48 (plus vat) how cheap is that if they do fit!!

conversely, if 309 torsion bars do fit, then there's a cheap source of 21.3mm torsion bars for the 309ers out there!

Nice bit of detective work there!

I'm really busy at the moment but want to set a saturday aside to take the rear beam off of my van (partner) and try it on my car. But when that will be I have no idea lol

oh, the larger bars come on the 600 and 800 vans too

Nice, mines a 600

Slightly OT, but do you know what the difference is between the 600 and 800? the brakes can't be any bigger on the 800 as they are already 266mm under 14" wheels, and you said the rear suspension is the same. Maybe damper ratings?

Haha I can see you there swapping them with the work van's!

Obviously it's best to upgrade all 3 bars but is there any benefit to just changing the arb?

I'd have said so You would still have the ride of the standard TBs, but with an upgraded ARB to give a little less body roll. Not sure how this would affect the car on the limit, whether it would induce more understeer or oversteer.

Are the GTI6 TBs 21mm too? Then again I found my dads GTI6 bloody rock solid and that was standard. Great for track but not so great with our awful roads.
Ahh another question: What size Tbs did the 405 T16 have? Nik?

Wouldn't the T16 not have TBs as it is a 4bie?

Oh no I look stupid! Oh well, can't be bothered to delete it now.

you eejit Kriss!

a fatter ARB in the rear of the 405 will make it understeer less, and roll less.

That - is interesting!

I've been doing some investigation. Here are some shots from the parts CD. My Mi16 has a 20mm ARB and 19.6mm torsion bars.

Certainly an easy upgrade if the Partner parts all fit. Can anyone confirm it?

It’s a shame the t16 front arb is nfp. Any idea where to get a bigger front arb for the 405? If someone can confirm the part inter changeability of the rear torsion bar set up of the m49 partner vs. a 405, Id be very keen to give it a go, cost price will make it cheaper too!

Mi16x4 is 1mm bigger than Mi16.

I know several people in Norway have taken complete Partner rear beams and bolted to the 405, it's the same unit mostly, got different partnumbers, but that's probably due to a minor non-noticeable difference as usual

And yes the TB's are same length between the partner and 405..

Also the 306 TB's are approx 8-10mm longer than the 405/309 ones (can't remember exactly atm).

I have some 23mm 306 ones from Peugeot Sport I'm going to cut away 5mm each side of the splines on each side and fit to a 309 beam.

Also Nfp .

A very interesting thread.

Since we don't get the Partner van range in Australia, but do get the Citroen Berlingo, can I assume they would use the same (rear) underpinnings?

Yes Berlingo and Partner is the same thing.

I can hear everyone thinking ..........

Mi16x4 front ARB
Uprated front springs

now, which part number for the Partner torsion and ARB bars ......... !

Or - how difficult would it be to swap the rear disc setup onto a full partner beam before bolting it all onto the Mi?
I'm allowing for a beam recon later in the year anyway ........

I recon the combined mods above would be a nice little step in the right direction........

Now, what about Polyurethane bushings for 405?

Does anyone have any information on whether they are available or where to buy them? There seems to be nothing in Ukraine..

There is nothing at all available for the 405 in that respect AFAIK,

in most cases on other Peugeot's though a Polybush is nearly always outlasted and outperformed by the original hard rubber items due to their construction.

What do you mean by original hard rubber items? Stock or Peugeot Sport items?
My friend has some of Peugeot Sport Group N hard rubber bushings on his 306, but he says that there is no catalogue numbers available for 405 from Peugeot Sport..

Heres a pic illustrating difference in length between, 309, 405 and 306 bars...

Of course on the other side they are all flush

Click to view attachment

thanks for the pic, do you know what the difference is with the ARB's?

I know that the xsara and zx use a 23mm and the 306 a 24mm item, the 405 has to make o with 20mm (only 22mm on the T16)




err, sure? my Phase 2 has a 22mm front ARB.

only the T16 was larger at 23mm, maybe P1 405's had a 21mm front ARB?

(though there is a 22mm listed for 2wd as well as 4wd)

I'm pretty sure there's little luck about the rear ARB.

It's quite a bit longer than on the 309/306 due to completely different design of the subframe.

Also I'm pretty sure the 405 ARB had much bigger splines than the 309/306.

Nope, most ZX's and 306's i've come across are the same, 22mm, 24mm on the sportier models only.

The T16 has a 23mm front ARB.
Mi16 and 405 TurboD has a 22mm front ARB.
2.0 SRI has a 21mm front ARB.

I've tried to fit a T16 ARB, but a 4wd ARB dosn't fit on a 2wd 405...
now i use a 22mm front ARB on the 2.0 SRI

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but it 's nearly time to re-do my suspension on the track car & that means I can fit my custom 23mm rear torsion bars if I can find a similarily larger sway bar to suit. Can someone give me the part numbers for the 309 24mm & 306 23mm rear sway bars shown in the pic please?

My parts CD don't show one bigger than 21mm for the 309 or 306 or are these are aftermarket?

Thanks

These in the pic are mine

And they are the torsion springs and not sway bars though.

The 24mm ones came off a rally car no idea where they are made.
23mm ones are from peugeot sport for 306 Gr. A.

A thicker ARB for the 405 I think you might have a problem to find, unless the Partner/Berlingo comes with a thick ARB in some versions.
Better check that out.

there is the following listed for the Partner;

5170 A1 R/ANTI-ROLL BAR DIAM 21 - TURBO DIESEL DW10TD AND FR/RR HEAVY DUTY SUSPENSION

so stiffer than the standard 20mm, but nowhere near as stiff as the 24mm of the 106 and 306 gti.

they are only £56 though!

Welshpug, I recently fitted a Partner 21mm arb to the 405 just before a sprint session at Sandown & the 22% increase in stiffness was noticeable.

The 23mm custom torsion bars at +3mm are 75% stiffer than the standard, so the arb needs to be something more suitable-at least 23 as well I'd imagine.

Can someone measure the length & count the splines of a 306 rear arb please? I'll check the 405 & report back.

Maybe they're interchangable with 405's.

They are 30/32 splines, left/right, looking at the picture above they look to have the same length spline, though they are the torsion bars now I look at the picture again, so unsure as I've never seen a 405/partner torsion bar out.

Those figures are encouraging as the 405 also has 30/32 splines.

405 rear arb spec-

1 end-30 splines & 24mm diameter
other end-32 splines & 25.5mm diameter
overall length-1028mm

So the biggest diameter you could fit would be 24mm (to get past the splines).

Does anyone know the length of the 306 arb's as the GTi6 has a 24mm one listed-5170 83.

Cheers

hmm, 205 one is 1098mm long but has wrong splines, saxo/106 is shorter by a few mm (12 IIRC)

wouldn't be an issue to get one Made but would cost £150+

That's a typo-

A 405 rear arb is 1192mm.

1192mm eh? hmmm, I think I have a 306 ARB somewhere to hand.