How many versions are there on a Ph1?

Was about to change mine but apparently I got the wrong one.

mine opens up one hole at the time (XU9J4/Z DFW), and this one I got opens both at the same time (D6C I suppose).

There are also two clicks I think when 1st hole starts to open and 2nd when the other starts to open.

Can I fit this one that opens two holes at the same time on my car that has one that opens one at the time?

Do you mean that they both have two butterflies (holes). Or that yours has one butterfly and the other one you have (from a D6C) has 2 butterflies?

They both have 2 butterflies (couldn't remember the word ), only mine opens one butterfly at the time, and (probably) D6C one opens both at the same time.

Measure the bore to make sure you haven't got an XU9J2 one.

Bore is around 35mm I can't measure it precisely, it's WEBER and has a number on it: 380FP 6 0030

I know my J4 one is a weber.

Unless one of the is actually bigger than the other does it make a difference? The one that opens progressively (one at a time) would be smoother and easier to use, but as long as they both fully open at WOT, power itself should not be changed?

@KRISKARRERA: I made a mistake, weber throttle body I got has a bore od 38mm, not 35 as I sad before. Can you tell me which size is on Mi16? I also heard that a peugeot 605 2.0 throttle body is a direct fit, AFAIK it has 42mm bore.

I was planning to use a VAG 2.8 V6 throttle body, as seen on http://www.205gtidrivers.com/articles.php?data=e2-vagtb

but Instead, I got a renault 19 16v/clio 16v/williams throttle body which looks pretty much the same:



However, I have 3 problems or more


First thing the throttle cable fitting is on the wrong side, I can't mount Mi16 tps on it, and it's actually smaller on the place where I should put the rubber that connects it with the AFM.

So I have two questions.

1. Is it possible to connect renault tps with peugeot connector, will it work all right?
2. Is it going to be a downgrade or an upgrade, since the surface is smaller than Mi16 one (I can put renault tb opening in the ?Mi16? opening, but the choke area of the butterflies is bigger than Mi16 one (smaller is 35mm and larger is 52mm)?

Please help!

sell it and buy the right one for the conversion. or ill sell u mine mi16 dc6

I didn't buy it yet, it's borrowed till I see if it fits, I'd like to keep it if it's possible to make it work, because it's in great condition, and I can't find a VAG tb anywhere.

As I told you allready, take the one from Citroen XM 2.1i
Direct fit, with small changes, cant remember more.

Forget this VAG stuff...

I'll try to look it up, but it think I have better chance finding the VAG one.

Do the butterflies open progressively on XM tb?

dont know that, just that is larger by approx 25-30% than MI16 standard one.

well now ive read this thread im going to forget the vag and go with the xm route as i did not this info. sweet!!!!!!!! glad this has been posted as was just about to blow 35 quid on vag from ebay.

good luck finding a petrol 2.1 XM....

Was there a 2.1 Citroen XM?

couldnt find anything in the searches i did last nite so dont no where hes got his info from 2.1 td and plenty of but no 2.1 petrols

There is no 2.1 petrol, only 2.1 xud11.

Are you sure James?

Because I saw in an add, a man is selling Citroen XM 2.1i engine. But on wikipedia for example, there isn't a word about this engine. Is it possible it was made for some markets only?

Anyways, I think it would be easier to search for a Peugeot 605 2.0 throttle body.

100% postive. PSA never produced a 2.1 petrol. The only way to get a 2.1 petrol is custom build xu10 using the 1.9 xu9j4 crank.

what differences are there for the 605 n mi tb?

is the 605 bigger than the mi tb then?

Yes, according to a friend of mine, it should have 42mm butterflies.

Can you confirm that Mi16 are 35mm?

Because I have one tb which has 38mm butterflies, so I'm not sure.

ill have a look shortly. but dont have proper measuring tools so it will be rough measurement

well ive measured the tb from the rear and the opening is 40mm but there is a step of about 1mm around the circumference so the butterflies on my mi16 dc6 are 38mm in diameter.

I thought the 605 TB has a single butterfly valve?

yea im thinking hes got his info all mixed up somewhere along the line. as the 2.0 turbo has single butterfly with those measurements hes suggested. so it still stands that the vag conversion is the best way of converting a worn out mi16 dc6 1.9 throttlebody. that was a long way round a small bend. talk about goose chases !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tnx

And the other tb I'm talking about is definitely a double tb, there are more engines than just a 2.0 turbo in 605. 2.0 8v and also a 2.0 16V. I'm not sure from which engine this 42mm tb came from, but I'm buying it soon so I will post here the manufacturer and/or some kind of a code.

Pictures will help boys...

agreed but im unable to download from my phone to my laptop as i have no link cable and my camera eats batteries like no tomorrow but ill get some charged for this special occasion

i doubt that a double 42mm butterfly tb would fit the standard dc6 inlet manifold. ill do somemore investigating tomorrow to see

after doing some searching ive come across one of alexn s threads askin about extra performance for his mi16x4 and in reply m.i-man posted that there is a webber double 42mm butterfly tb but it does not fit the mi mani without an extension plate of 18mm but which engine this tb is assighned to it does not say. so the question goes to alexn/m.i-man do you have any info on this webber tb???

the tb with 35mm butterflys are from an xu9j2 engine from the bx gti or the 405 sri

Will you guys be getting rid of the AFM?

TBH the standard throttle body looks far bigger than the peice of crap AFM in front of it. You would likely just slow the velocity of the air and choke the motor down low if you went bigger?

I think far better gains would be made switching to a MAP sensor or even a hotwire type AFM.

My 2c

m.i-man quoted he had decent gains from his conversion weather or not it was remapped i dont know

wouldnt the long runners create the velocity and therefore the smaller bores on the tb act as a restriction. would this not be a good option if the engine were in a higher state of tune???????????

^Possibly, I figured that the TB's are similar to the venturi in a carb which create the velocity. Multiple units of smaller diameter will make the motor more responsive and give more torque down low while a larger one is better for ultimate flow but can ruin the response.

Have you had a look inside the AFM Mi8? If you do then you will have an idea why I think changing to a hotwire type will provide better gains than changing the TB. Not saying that a TB change won't create more power, just that I think getting rid of the stock AFM would be a better thing to do first. I think you would find your TB change would work much better.

I'm not talking from experience though, just from a lot of reading

Does anyone how difficult it would be to change the vane type for a hotwire?

thing is im not using afm i want the large tb for my xu10 turbo engine which im using 405 sri inlet manifold

http://howto.globalvicinity.com/gv_wiki.ph...p;co=1&vi=1

nice bit of reading cant see the pics or data tho

You will run into problems depending what MAF you go for as i can't remember which way it is on the pug, but the resistance values are typically reversed i.e. 5v-0v AFM vs 0v-5v MAF

It's a fairly common swap on other cars just have to have a fair bit of electrical / circuitry know how...

Good point. I was going to say you wouldn't want to run an AFM with a turbo anyway but got caught up in my tangent and forgot

its all gravy baby

is there anymore info on this throttlebody with twin 42mm plates

Got some pics of the 42mm throttle body:





Looks pretty much the same. It's hard to notice but I think the butterflies are bigger, there is also an extra hole, and the tps looks different.

If I get hold of it soon, will post more pics and serial numbers.

intresting. so you havnt actually accquired this item to do any measuring as of yet .

Not just yet, but soon my friend, soon.

This guy sent it today, so hopefully I'll have it in couple of days.

sweet ! and you say this piece of equipment is from a 605.

Was told so, can't google anything.

i believe that this perticular tb needs a spacing plate of 18 mm to allow fitment due to the second butterfly opening gradually and the mech that allows this hits the mani. does fancy selling it?

LOL I just bought it, don't think I'll be selling it, cause finally I got the right thing (I hope).

Here are some pics to compare Mi16 and 605 (I suppose) one:



There is a stamp of production year - '92, so thats what you should be looking for.