I've heard a lot of people say that the ABS system is crap on a 405 and prone to failure.

Got a couple of questions...

1) Is there any truth in this?
2) The brakes are really over-servo'd and so I was thinking of fitting non-ABS brake system from an SRi. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work? For example different size discs/disc offset etc.
3) Can you do the 307 HDi front brake conversion on a 405 that's proving popular with 205 owners?

Thanks

Well in Australia, the first batch of series 1 405 had a myriad of problems with the Bendix ABS system. Not too sure about later models, but I think they may have been equiped with Bosch ABS systems which were quite a bit better.

Yes it's true, there are exceptions though. The earlier brakes, up to about 1990 were said to be terribly over servoed and bloody unreliable Even the later Bendix "additional" abs weren't that great. Mine died on an old J plate 405 causing all sorts of hassle at MOT time.

My current 405 had dead ABS so rather than spend the grand or whatever it would've cost to fix it, the previous owner (Miles) simply fitted the regular non-abs system as found on the lesser 405s. But with new master cylinder and brake lines etc it works fine. Best part is there's none of that crap down to the left of the inlet manifold therefore changing alternators and starter motors is a doddle.

Bendix ABS early system, when it works it's good. When it breaks, the car doesn't.

Don't know about 307's, but I think the discs are a different offset?

Thats confirmed it, the ABS is going in the bin! I expect taking that and the aircon off (it's broken) should shed a bit of weight from the old girl too!

One other thing, could someone who has the part number CD check for me if a 309 GTi master cylinder is the same as a 405 non-ABS one please. I've got a virtually brand new 309 one in the garage.

Thanks

Just checked the parts CD and typically there's more than one listed for both but my guess is "yes"... (famous last words )

Ok, thanks. Is there somewhere that I could download the parts CD, or do you have to buy it fome eBay?

I pulled the clocks out of my mi and found the abs bulb was missing. So like a true gentlemen, I endevoured to put a nice new bulb in..... hey presto it lights up, all the time.... I assume there is a fault with my abs? Although my brakes work fine.

Should I have them checked? Or is it ok to carry on using them like this?

Clicky

Think that is what you are looking for.

EXACTLY the same thing happened to me. MOT tester said "You're ABS light don't flash on at start up". I took dash apart - yip some git had done that same thing to me.

Early Bendix system is phenomenal when it works. Far better stopping power than the later Bosch system. If you get the servo and master cylinder off the later Bosch system and remove the ABS from that they stop very well with very good pedal feel. One of our chaps did this with his 4bie and it performed excellently while he was ringing it's neck up Prescott Hill Climb last year.

Hmmm, I don't have problems for MOT purposes.... but is it something that should be sorted out? Or is it actuall safe to drive?

I suppose the brakes still work, but the ABS doesn't? Or is it much worse than that? Bearing in mind Kris, that my mi16 is diesel.

Yeah when the abs goes tits up the system just works as normal. Minus abs. So says Haynes.

That's good enough for me.

Thats exactly what I was looking for

Unless its the early Bendix 'all singing, all dancing, whoops we forgot the safety aspect' system.

*goes to check*

I'm surprised that Bendix were allowed to produce an ABS system without a safety backup. It's not like ABS systems last forever so what did they think would happen when the system developed a fault?

You'd come back to the dealer and pay £2k to get it fixed?

The safety back up is the very large red stop light that still allows you about 3 applications of the brakes between coming on and having none. It's amazing how many people don't stop though when their car tells them too!!

There are a lot of similar systems in place on modern Mercs etc. where they are purely electronically controlled so it can be said that it was way ahead of it's time.

Yeah, but the wife was driving when ours went, which means a big red 'STOP' light is too technical for her.

My 1990 Mi16x4 has just failed its MOT on the brakes, namely the ABS system. It failed becasue the ABS light was not coming on. What could be the cause of this? I recently dismantled a 1992 Mi16x4 and took the whole brake system off it. I was hoping to use these as spares, at least to determine where the problem lies in the system, but to my dismay they are different! Reading some of the posts here about the early Bendix ABS system, is it true that if the ABS unit fails the brakes fail? My brakes still work fine, its just this damn light thats not coming on! Any help you could give me would be very much appreciated as its the only thing it failed on of any significance and I need it back on the road!

Check the bulb for starters? If the bulb is fine, I can't see why it will not be lighting up on turn of the key....
Normally if there's a fault, then the light stays on... unless the bulb is blown. Other than that, I'm not overly sure.

Thanks, I guess thats the most logical first step, I'll check that before i start messing around with the rest of the system.

I removed the Bendix ABS from my second Mi16, replacing it with standard booster/master cylinder. Unfortunately the light stayed on. I could never find the relay as it was up under the dash. I just removed the globe.

The Mi16x4 I now own also has had the Bendix ABS removed. The previous owner also removed the globe.

You're right in saying the Bendix system is not fail safe. Loose the ABS and you loose the lot. Later models with the Bosch system will still have normal brakes if the ABS fails.

Thanks, PeterT thats what I wanted to know. As my brakes stilll work the ABS must still be working, just the light that is not for some reason. I'll consider removing the ABS completely from the car as I don't like the sound of losing all my brakes one day! How easy is it to remove the ABS?

Had my Mi16 for 7 years and done 50.000 miles and not had any problems with the ABS, its a great system.
Had problems with sticky calipers and getting the system bled at times but nowt else.

I also had a GTX which had exactly the same ABS system and I did approx 65,000 miles in that and never had any problems.

The ABS in both cars has saved me from having an accident many times, so I for one would NOT advocate removing it for an inferior system.

Most common fault on the system is the wheel sensors and they dont cost a lot to replace.

But Len I don't think anyone was recommending removing the ABS system if it was not beyond economical repair. Just so happened that what needed replacing on my system was worth more than the car.

Have you heard of Freemans? An excellent Peugeot specialist breaker?

They used to be in Marshgate Swindon but are now out at Highworth.

They usually have a good stock of 405 parts. I bought an ABS pump for £80.

Oh right, I go Swindon almost every week but I don't know where anything is bar Greenbridge and the main shopping bit in the centre. Has this place got a postcode I could look up on multimap because to have somewhere else to go would be useful as I fell out with my local scrappy a while back.

Len if you could find out the postcode for the place I would be very interested! I have been looking for a peugoet breaker for a while as there are a few other bits and pieces that I would like to get hold of.

All I've got is a phone number because I havent visited his new place in Highworth.
Thats just north of Swindon on the A361.

Dave Freeman 01793 861760

In his old yard he had loads of parts and several complete engines.

I'd be very interested to see if he had Bendix ABS bits as they are some of the best brakes i have felt on a car but the major down side is that the master cylinder is £1100+VAT and the pump is £1250+VAT from Pug. I don't know of another car that used that system either. As for 405's, i thought that it was only fitted to early Mi models and 4bies and that all other models has the additional ABS similar to the late system.

I spotted that system on an old 405 Sri on ebay recently.

Bloody hell, how do they justify charging that much! For that price you could have 300mm+ discs and 6 pot calipers!

Peugeot are very good at pricing items they don't want to sell out of the market. The suspension pump on one of our chaps 4bie went last year and they wanted £1145 + VAT for an electric pump with a solenoid. I think they are having a laugh.

What about the Mi16 distributor cap and rotor arm? I recall asking Pug how much that would be in 2001 and I think it was something crazy like £90!!!!!

that's nothing, they want 5000 Euros for T16 VAT25 turbo!

Oh but that's a turbo! It's not a service part man!

Back to the ABS light problem, what symbol is the ABS light, I can't tell which light is which on the dashboard. Does anyone have a picture of the symbol? Thanks for all your help!

Don't worry I found out which it was and sure enough there was no bulb in there! Put one in and now it comes on for a few seconds when the ignition is turned then goes out, problem solved!