just after a bit of 'advice' if anyone can help!

due to the mi16's engine failing on the way home (HG gone and bottom ends knocking) it's quicker to swap the engine rather than fix it. plus i can try and rebuild the knackered one in my own time or even make a coffee table out of the block and pistons or something retro/fun/etc

this week i've been stripping it down, and i've got the radiator off, bonnet off, grill at the front with the peugeot badge on, and the bonnet hinge etc. not done a lot mainly cos other smaller jobs take the time up!

i'm going to remove the bumper for easier access and by the looks of it, i need to get the headlights out first, and the panel above them (slam panel) which looks as though it's all one big panel, with the radiator fans and everything attached with it

anyone got any pointers? is there a quicker way to remove the lights etc? do i need to whip the bumper off FIRST? not done anything whatsoever with a 405 so this differs somewhat from my 306 and 205's a bit.. and i want to make removing the engine as hassle-free as possible. i'm going to be tagging everything on the loom with notes about plug colour/where roughly they go etc

also i heard something about the newer mi16's (2.0's) having a plugin loom - and the old one (my mi16) being different. does this mean it's going to be harder removing my loom? any help/comments are greatly appreciated!

Ok well I've never taken an engine out so I'll not be much help but it occured to me is it really necessary to take the slam panel and lights out?

jack it up on stands so there's at least 620mm clearance under the front spoiler. Remove driveshafts, then drop the engine/gearbox to the floor. Slide out under spoiler. No need to remove radiator, grille etc.

started tackling wiring tonight - got the 2 fuel lines disconnected, a few other plugs out but the bulk of wires that run under where the metal plate is under the air filter housing, is causing massive problems. there's 3 bolts holding that plate on. one hidden at the left edge and 2 visible from overhead. one of the overhead ones is just spinning on the thread and i see no way of accessing it to renew or get the bottom bit out if i was to hacksaw it off.

plus this is also now stopping me removing the wiring, which is the same wiring that runs arched under the inlet manifold and up to near the left corner (looking from the front)

the joys of doing this and all these smaller jobs tie my time up

i was under the impression that the best way to remove it is to remove it from the top, although thinking about it now, it would be easier to drop it due to the box having to come out angled to clear the chassis etc

i'm sure i'll work something out. my original reason for this thread was because i couldn't work out how to remove the panel that has the radiator fans in it, which seems to be one big large panel, running next to/behind the lights etc

As said, if you can drop it out from underneath it will make the job far easier.

Freaky coincidence - I took that badboy off my car yesterday to paint it as it had been rusting nicely. Which one is it that spins? Couldn't you grip the shaft with a pair of long nose pliers and undo the nut with a spanner?

Thats handy I was wondering were the other bolt was

When I've this happen to me before on various parts of the engine bay (I've owned a lot of Pugs!), I've always just hacksawed off the bolt and replaced it with a nut and bolt.

well all the wiring is now out (from every sensor/under the inlet) but not completely "out" from the bulkhead but will let me get the engine out. only thing i've noticed is a few of the clips on the sensors are broken around where the metal thin fasteners are. i'm sure they'll all clip in place correctly and sit tight but should this cause any future problems? also noticed the wires running to the sensor/wiring next to the sump plug that runs behind the engine from near the battery area has frayed badly and looks as though the wires have split completely inside the red cabling. the plastic cabling that some wires also run thru have also seen better days and break very easily, exposing wiring inside

any suggestions what to do? i assume that it's quite rare to find an mi16 loom for my 1990 (phase1?) mi16 that hasn't been either cut to bits, or become knackered in the same way?

and i've not even started getting the engine itself out yet - this wiring was a nightmare but i'm getting there

We got the mi16 out of the 405 by removing the radiator panel, slam panel etc etc....
Did the same when I got the engine out of the Goodwood. Seems pretty easy really. Thought I would drop the mi16 out of the Dimma through the bottom, as getting the front bumper off is too much of a mission in itself!!

As for the wiring, why not just cut out the bad parts and solder in some new cable and heat shrink the connections? Will be a lot quicker and cheaper than trying to source a new/ decent 2nd hand loom.

Well I have had the engine out of mine twice and out of the GTX 3 times and I never went to all that trouble.

The two hardest bits are driveshafts (underneath undoing the holding in bolts on the offside) and the exhaust downpipe.

Oh was forgetting the Air Con pump - thats a bit of a pig too!

Disconnect everthing, then drop the engine and box together, lift up the car and pull it all out.

Think I could do that now in about 4 hours on my own!

i think when i finally get around to it, i'll tilt it to the right and lift it out the top

still got the driveshafts to remove, PAS hose and gear linkages and that looks like it

i'm sure there'll be other things i've forgot but hey, i'm learning

couldn't get the panel around the radiator fans out atall so i'm going to leave it where it is. i did remove the radiator itself and hoses because it's manky and needs a clean/replacing ideally

then new discs/pads, filters, spoiler respraying..

If you leave the gearbox attached it WONT go out the top!!!!

Did try that in my GTX and it was an absolute pig!!!! So to put it back in we took out the gearbox reattached it and put them back together.

Its far easier to drop it to the ground.

But of course its your choice mate and good luck!!!!

The only way to get it out the top with the front assembly still in, is to have the car jacked up on axle stands, and have the crane attatched on the left hand side of the engine. Using the weight of the box, it will come out at an angle.... but it is a bit dodgy!!

So rikky have ya got it out yet????

Like to hear how ya got on mate.

is that the same with a x4 ??

http://www.rikky.net/upload/mi16/1.jpg
http://www.rikky.net/upload/mi16/2.jpg
http://www.rikky.net/upload/mi16/3.jpg
http://www.rikky.net/upload/mi16/4.jpg
http://www.rikky.net/upload/mi16/5.jpg
http://www.rikky.net/upload/mi16/6.jpg
http://www.rikky.net/upload/mi16/7.jpg
http://www.rikky.net/upload/mi16/8.jpg
http://www.rikky.net/upload/mi16/9.jpg

these are a few updated pics, not really "progressed" a lot because i've got other bits to sort on my 306 and then the 405 can get started properly on. all the slam panel etc is out, manifold bolts/linkages/PAS hoses/water hoses/oil feeds/radiator/bumper/lights/clutch system/throttle cable/bonnet/bonnet hinge/cable/etc, the lot's out/.. everything's done except whip driveshafts out but i'm leaving it as it is for the moment so i can move it in/out of my big garage with ease. as described in other pages, other stuff's took time up and you have to do 10 jobs to get to one small job, and then you forget what it is you were originally doing. it's easy to be honest aslong as you've got the tools.

manifold bolts were NOT fun though, very grazed knuckles and a lot of hours put into sawing them off. long long long process

there's a lot more involved in removing the engine that i first thought and i'm sure anyone on here who's done it to their 405 will realise this!

You've really gone through some extra trouble here. Removing the front&radiator is not neccessary, and yes, the engine and gearbox is removable from the top. Removing the radiator has given you great access to otherwise hard-to-reach places though, so the rest of the removal should be no problem.

Use two cranes to lift it out, one attached to the righthand side which actually takes most of the load, and a ligther one or possibly just a pulley system attached to the lefthand side(gearbox side). This gives you full controll over the tilt while raising it.

If you have some old driveshafts lying around its possible to use only the outer constant-velocity-joint of those to replace the driveshafts in the hubs. This allows you to have a rolling chassis through the whole operation(including refitting).

personally, i find the fastest and easiest way is to drop the lot out, and lift the car off the power unit. i.e.

undo the strut tops and the front brake pipes, the 4 bolts holding the subframe to the body, the 2 top engine mounts, the clamp between the steering couloumn and the rack, all the water pipes and electrics, then simply lift the car off the engine/subframe. (i do however have a big fork lift truck to lift the car!!!!!)

with a 4x4 its MUCH easier to use this method than try to remove it any other way.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to drop the engine/gearbox as one and leave the subframe on the car? Don't know about 4x4, never took an engine out of one so I guess dropping the subframe too would be a much better idea

Sorry to bring up an old topic but...

I'm gonna be removing an engine from a 4bie soon. Is it really best to drop the engine rather than lift it? How do I get it out from under the car? And how can I get the car lifted high enough? I only have axle stands, surely that wont be high enough?

If you can raise the axle stands higfher then should be fine. This is all hoping that the subframe captive bolts are still captive...

The one i broke a few months back was a right PITA! But it is possible, with alot of edging about with the engine, box, transfer box etc all on the engine crane i wangled the lot out all on my own, if lil old me can do it, so can you!

Personally i've never usually dropped engine's out, always go from above, even when doing an engine change on a Mk1 Clio, where seemingly everyone in the world states it's not possible to do from above complete with gearbox, it is...

I picked Sean (Higgy's) brains before i did it, and just found this, his reply;

I must add i didn't need to remove the front cross member, but the front end was without lights, slam panel, rad, fans etc..

Also didn't have too much trouble with the gearbox mount stud, a bit fidly but as i say, it'll all come out.

I would rather remove it from the top I think, we have a crane so that's not a problem... Only one thing, if you take off the front wheels and discs and drop the car, how will it ever go back up again?

Jack it back up!

I didn't have to do this though as my crane went high enough.